Average Income of Czech People




I was surprised to know that average income of Czech people is not even 1000 euro, which makes this country one of the poorest countries in Europe. And the funny thing is economic growth of Czech is stagnating or progressing at a rate likely to be seen at developed countries, like Germany, U.S.A, Japan... Anyone was surprised? Do you think this is the limitation of Czech economy?

07:38:38 11.08.2014 Hye Ran .Cho

I live in a small town near Ostrava and most of the people here work in local factories making 10-12k czk a month which is about 400-450 euro!!! I have no idea how they make a living from 400 euro a month? Because the prices in shops and department stores are pretty much the same as in Western Europe.

09:35:14 11.08.2014 Thomas1930

Not really surprised, and Prague is far ahead of the rest of the country economically. As for being "one of the poorest in Europe", this is not true either. It is 17th out of 28 in the EU (poorer are Slovakia, Portugal, Greece, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Latvia, Hungary, Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria). http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/GDP_per_capita,_consumption_per_capita_and_price_level_indices As for the limitation, everyone blames the 1948-89 regime, and they have a point. Only Slovenia has a higher GDP per head among post-communist countries. As to what will happen in the future, who knows...

11:02:47 11.08.2014 Rob_Prague_2004

I live in Usti nad Labem, and the monthly average is 18000czk, my mother in law has a pharmacy and pays her assistant 22000czk and her cleaning/helping person 11000czk. They work 30 hours a week and are provided meal coupons or free lunch from the delivery service. Wages are after tax, insurance, etc.. Average 2+1 100sq meter apartment goes for about 7500czk. inclusive of all utilities and partially furnished.

12:54:10 11.08.2014 Jenny.Saufl

Life is rough here for most people. That's just a fact. If you wanna have a "western" lifestyle in Prague, you need to be making ~55,000 after taxes. You've got a very slim chance of actually making that amount here though.

15:43:09 15.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzLife is rough here for most people. That's just a fact. If you wanna have a "western" lifestyle in Prague, you need to be making ~55,000 after taxes. You've got a very slim chance of actually making that amount here though.

:rolleyes: Disagree , disagree, disagree - do your Czech contacts seem to be having a rough time then?

17:38:26 15.08.2014 hroch

Hroch: You got hooked. Nunyabiznazz = None of your business. He's a Troll !

19:45:13 15.08.2014 DowntownMan

Got to say. This site seems to be scraping the barrel in order to get traffic.

19:54:50 15.08.2014 VLM

Yeah if you aren't in love with every aspect of CZ you must be a troll. Anyone who thinks life is peachy for the majority here has never been outside of prague 1. Try traveling to Usti nad Labem or Ostrava. Most people just barely scrape by. For those who don't believe me. http://www.praguepost.com/finance/36181-czechs-not-ready-for-rainy-day

23:41:58 15.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: DowntownManHroch: You got hooked. Nunyabiznazz = None of your business. He's a Troll !

Also, maybe I don't want my last name put out on a website of strangers

23:46:50 15.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

I present facts proving my point and now the anecdotal "sun is always shining over CZ and if you don't think so you're a troll" people disappear. Who's the troll now? :DD

11:29:05 19.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

I was referring to the OP but if the cap fits. 50 Km from Usti by the way and there aren´t many people "scraping by" round here.

13:05:49 19.08.2014 VLM

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzLife is rough here for most people. That's just a fact. If you wanna have a "western" lifestyle in Prague, you need to be making ~55,000 after taxes. You've got a very slim chance of actually making that amount here though.

You will never make 55k after taxes being a English teacher thats true, but having a profession a trade will help you achieve such salaries. Just walk through Chodov business park, you will be see many a "slim chance" persons there.

13:12:57 19.08.2014 UK007

Quote: UK007You will never make 55k after taxes being a English teacher thats true, but having a profession a trade will help you achieve such salaries. Just walk through Chodov business park, you will be see many a "slim chance" persons there.

+1

15:29:27 19.08.2014 animaleyes76

Quote: UK007You will never make 55k after taxes being a English teacher thats true, but having a profession a trade will help you achieve such salaries. Just walk through Chodov business park, you will be see many a "slim chance" persons there.

I recall seeing stats that like 60% of employees in the Czech Republic don't make the average salary (26,000 CZK/month) and something like 1-1.5% make 100,000 CZK/month (ca. 70,000 CZK/month after taxes). I'm not one who thinks that most Czechs live marginal lives, but there's no way that 55,000 CZK/month after taxes is a realistic salary for the vast majority of employees in the Czech Republic. Your example of Chodov Business Park is like me saying "walk past the skyscrapers on Lexington Avenue in Manhattan and tell me that it's not common for Americans to make $300,000/year".

15:38:07 19.08.2014 brodeur

To be fair he didn't say for the majority of people, just that there are plenty of those jobs around (which there are). " but having a profession a trade will help you achieve such salaries." is also true. I would openly admit Chodov is full of a lot of IT companies but if you work in IT and have the right skills it's very easy to earn such money.

15:42:42 19.08.2014 animaleyes76

Quote: animaleyes76To be fair he didn't say for the majority of people, just that there are plenty of those jobs around (which there are). " but having a profession a trade will help you achieve such salaries." is also true. I would openly admit Chodov is full of a lot of IT companies but if you work in IT and have the right skills it's very easy to earn such money.

Exactly, at least someone is clever enough to get it, no wonder some people earn so little. I was discussing just last week about people who i know of that earn much more than 100k a month, in fact some people i know are between 150 to 200k a month. So anything is achievable giving circumstances, time and skills.

15:53:13 19.08.2014 UK007

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzYeah if you aren't in love with every aspect of CZ you must be a troll. Anyone who thinks life is peachy for the majority here has never been outside of prague 1. Try traveling to Usti nad Labem or Ostrava. Most people just barely scrape by. For those who don't believe me. http://www.praguepost.com/finance/36181-czechs-not-ready-for-rainy-day

Where does this article refer to earnings (except in your comment) It´s about Czechs not saving for a rainy day. That is just typical Czech mentality of tomorrow will look after itself. Nothing to do with earnings.

19:13:37 19.08.2014 VLM

Quote: UK007Exactly, at least someone is clever enough to get it, no wonder some people earn so little. I was discussing just last week about people who i know of that earn much more than 100k a month, in fact some people i know are between 150 to 200k a month. So anything is achievable giving circumstances, time and skills.

I'll be sure to pin those words of inspiration to my bedroom wall. So you know some people who make salaries that put them well within the 1% of employees in the CR - what exactly does that prove? Guess what, someone is always going to be in the 1%. You're probably not big on stats, but: If you think it's just about having a "profession or trade", look at average salaries in the Czech Republic: http://www.primat.cz/prumerna_mzda - I don't see too many jobs with average after tax salaries of 50,000 CZK/month. Or I just did a quick search on jobs.cz - 617 out of more than 12,000 jobs there have estimated salaries of more than 70,000 CZK/month pre-tax.

19:19:44 19.08.2014 brodeur

Quote: VLMWhere does this article refer to earnings (except in your comment) It´s about Czechs not saving for a rainy day. That is just typical Czech mentality of tomorrow will look after itself. Nothing to do with earnings.

not sure i agree with having "nothing to do with eanings" - i know people who make very little, yet always manage to have at least a small resereve - and other who make much much much more, who are always asking for loans - not only here, knew people in the u.s. who were the same ....

20:04:35 19.08.2014 meluzina

Quote: VLMWhere does this article refer to earnings (except in your comment) It´s about Czechs not saving for a rainy day. That is just typical Czech mentality of tomorrow will look after itself. Nothing to do with earnings.

Most Czech's I've met are extremely conservative with how they spend money. Also, if you read the article it states that a growing number of people are needing more than one source of income in order to pay for their basic things. That doesn't exactly sound like people living comfortably

20:50:55 19.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzMost Czech's I've met are extremely conservative with how they spend money. Also, if you read the article it states that a growing number of people are needing more than one source of income in order to pay for their basic things. That doesn't exactly sound like people living comfortably

i find the same usual combination of ones who are conservative and realise they should maintain a reserve and those who spend everything immediately (for needless things quite often) and then live hand to mouth - ironically, it's the ones who earn more money that tend to save then of course there are the people on limited incomes - even amongst those, i have met quite a few who cannot manage money - for example, a bloke who earns a decent wage (albeit below the average - but doesn't have to pay rent), who has to buy each of his three kids an expensive mobile and then there are those who earn a good wage or are self employed - think they are masters of the earth - buy god kows what on leasing - can't keep up with the payments - and end up losing everything

22:32:16 19.08.2014 meluzina

Income is only one part of the equation. In order to compare economies, it´s necessary to look at other data. I once lived on a street which was more or less divided 50/50 between newcomers with high incomes (and mortgages) and longtime, low-income residents who owned their houses outright. To compare only family incomes, the newcomers looked rich with typical monthly family incomes of 100k to 200k. However, the longtime residents with their 25k per month owned ‘multi-generational´ homes worth 7 - 15 million. I know many so-called poor people who own small flats in panelaks. While 1 million kc may not make someone a high net worth individual, where I come from poor people have virtually no assets whatsoever.

09:29:48 20.08.2014 Alu Repeat

Quote: brodeurI'll be sure to pin those words of inspiration to my bedroom wall.

See, now your starting to think a bit!! Glad i have helped.

10:38:10 20.08.2014 UK007

Again, the only counter arguments here are these nice little anecdotal stories of "I have many friends who live comfortably". However, there's no hard evidence out there to support these claims. Also, income is 100% of the equation. Having to rely on winning the genetic lottery and inheriting property is a ridiculous argument to make in terms of financial stability among the middle class. Of course if you look at the actual breakdown of wealth in CZ, there's about 1-1.5% of the population earning 70K after tax and up and the rest of the population is basically one paycheck away from being homeless. That's hardly a middle class by any stretch of the imagination.

12:54:44 20.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: meluzinai find the same usual combination of ones who are conservative and realise they should maintain a reserve and those who spend everything immediately (for needless things quite often) and then live hand to mouth - ironically, it's the ones who earn more money that tend to save then of course there are the people on limited incomes - even amongst those, i have met quite a few who cannot manage money - for example, a bloke who earns a decent wage (albeit below the average - but doesn't have to pay rent), who has to buy each of his three kids an expensive mobile and then there are those who earn a good wage or are self employed - think they are masters of the earth - buy god kows what on leasing - can't keep up with the payments - and end up losing everything

Why is that ironic? If you earn more money then of course you're more likely to have savings. That's like saying "ironically all of the people I know who got lung cancer were the same ones who were chain smokers" .

12:59:09 20.08.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: meluzinai find the same usual combination of ones who are conservative and realise they should maintain a reserve and those who spend everything immediately (for needless things quite often) and then live hand to mouth - ironically, it's the ones who earn more money that tend to save then of course there are the people on limited incomes - even amongst those, i have met quite a few who cannot manage money - for example, a bloke who earns a decent wage (albeit below the average - but doesn't have to pay rent), who has to buy each of his three kids an expensive mobile

I think it is kind of woodoo thinking, and also trying to maintain some "status". It is well known that in many cases people with lower income tend to waste more, buy unnecessary "luxury" things - to prove to, primarily to themselves I think, they "can afford it". Also they tend to eat less healthy food, although you can cook and eat well cheaply, too, if you want. I read (cannot recall where) a study about consumer habits in a German region a century or so ago - it was the same then.

13:23:02 20.08.2014 jezovec

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzAgain, the only counter arguments here are these nice little anecdotal stories of "I have many friends who live comfortably". However, there's no hard evidence out there to support these claims.

:confused: :confused: :confused: And the hard evidence to support your claim is???? Oh yeah! An article in Prague Post. LMFAO.

14:35:39 20.08.2014 VLM

Quote: Kyle.Nunyabiznazz Also, income is 100% of the equation.

The Czech Republic has a higher rate of home ownership than the EU average. During the last 20 years prices have soared. A huge number of people got into the market during the first decade after 1989 and are enjoying the rewards of doing so today. More people have benefited from this than restitution, so lucky genetics play a relatively minor role. This indicator of personal wealth is largely independent of income given the 80% ownership rate.

15:57:44 20.08.2014 Alu Repeat

Quote: Alu RepeatThe Czech Republic has a higher rate of home ownership than the EU average. During the last 20 years prices have soared. A huge number of people got into the market during the first decade after 1989 and are enjoying the rewards of doing so today. More people have benefited from this than restitution, so lucky genetics play a relatively minor role. This indicator of personal wealth is largely independent of income given the 80% ownership rate.

I think you're on to something, but I don't think it's the entire story. There are also major elements of luck and genetics involved, particularly for the younger generation. Two examples that I've noticed: My wife and I bought an apartment from someone who was fortunate enough to have bought it from the city several years before that at a price that was about one-third of the market price. So they made a tidy (huge) profit when they sold it to us based on nothing more than being fortunate enough to have been renting a city-owned apartment when the city decided to sell it. I understand the rationale behind selling these properties at well-below market prices, but in many cases it's just dumb luck and creates huge individual windfalls. I also know a number of younger Czechs (under 40) whose parents bought them starter apartments in Prague. Many of them have moved on to bigger and nicer apartments, but the ability to avoid paying rent for several years and then to have a huge down payment on a more expensive place is just a huge short- and long-term advantage that doesn't have too much to do with "personal responsibility" or being "clever" or anything else I see being mentioned here. One Czech I know actually disparaged the person who used a 25-year mortgage to buy the apartment his parents had bought him - something along the lines of "have fun paying for this for 25 years". What a classless and clueless ____.

16:38:42 20.08.2014 brodeur

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzWhy is that ironic? If you earn more money then of course you're more likely to have savings. That's like saying "ironically all of the people I know who got lung cancer were the same ones who were chain smokers" .

upps it's probaqbly because i wrote something other than what i meant - ironically, it's the ones who earn LESS money, who tend to try and save ...

16:47:05 20.08.2014 meluzina

Quote: VLM:confused: :confused: :confused: And the hard evidence to support your claim is???? Oh yeah! An article in Prague Post. LMFAO.

Its a lot more rock solid than "Everything is peachy, all of my Czech friends do well" anecdotal stories.

22:57:01 02.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzIts a lot more rock solid than "Everything is peachy, all of my Czech friends do well" anecdotal stories.

Jell-O is more rock solid than anything in the Prague Post.

02:01:37 03.09.2014 DowntownMan

Please please, before I hurt myself laughing. Just give us the hard evidence for this doozy. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzOf course if you look at the actual breakdown of wealth in CZ, there's about 1-1.5% of the population earning 70K after tax and up and the rest of the population is basically one paycheck away from being homeless.

10:16:14 03.09.2014 VLM

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzIts a lot more rock solid than "Everything is peachy, all of my Czech friends do well" anecdotal stories.

IS it? PMSL

10:43:10 03.09.2014 UK007

Quote: VLMPlease please, before I hurt myself laughing. Just give us the hard evidence for this doozy. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Well if I'm so wrong, it should be easy to find some statistics or articles proving how well the average Czech person does :)

22:52:39 03.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Prague Here's average cost of food, clothing, rent, etc. as well as the median salary. Take the average salary and then add up the typical costs in a given month. Let me know of all the extra money you have afterwards :D

22:55:43 03.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: Kyle.Nunyabiznazzhttp://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Prague Here's average cost of food, clothing, rent, etc. as well as the median salary. Take the average salary and then add up the typical costs in a given month. Let me know of all the extra money you have afterwards :D

some of those "typical costs" seem a bit exaggerated ??? 15.59 for a kilo of potatoes ? 20 crowns for a head of lettuce ? and 30 kc for apples ? even the utility costs seem very high to me - but then those are prague prices - although i have read that prague actually has cheaper electricity rates than elsewhere in the country it's the rent prices in prague that seem to be the killer

00:09:41 04.09.2014 meluzina

obviously i do not live in prague - in my area, most people live in their privately owned homes - thus great savings are achieved - the pnesioners i know survive just fine and even manage to put aside some money for a rainy day with pensions of between 10-15,000 crowns since i prefer to spend time according to wehat i like and not slaving away, i limit my paid work - average about 20,000 kc a month, and manage to save about 3,000 a month in various savings plans - i do own my own house, so there are savings there, otherwise electricity about 1,000 a month, heating, about 7,000 for the winter, nothing for water or gas

00:14:04 04.09.2014 meluzina

Quote: Kyle.Nunyabiznazzhttp://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Prague Here's average cost of food, clothing, rent, etc. as well as the median salary. Take the average salary and then add up the typical costs in a given month. Let me know of all the extra money you have afterwards :D

The prices in this index are more or less accurate. If you try to do the math, subtracting most of these things (including a 1 bedroom flat plus utilities) from 24,000kc, you´ll end up close to zero. Try starting with 48,000kc instead because most Praguers I know in this income bracket live with partners. Then the 12,000kc for a flat and 3000kc for utilities are perfectly manageable. Young Czechs living solo in this income bracket are likely to have studio flats in public transport-challenged neighborhoods which rent for less than 8,000kc, including utilities. It´s not uncommon for people to pay 50% of their income on rent in major cities throughout the world. Average real estate prices compared with incomes in New York are even more severe.

08:57:08 04.09.2014 Alu Repeat

Quote: Kyle.Nunyabiznazzhttp://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Prague Here's average cost of food, clothing, rent, etc. as well as the median salary. Take the average salary and then add up the typical costs in a given month. Let me know of all the extra money you have afterwards :D

So you´re now intimating that 98,8-99% of the Czech population live in Prague in rented accommodation. You are hillarious. :D :D :D :D Please stop. :D :D :D By the way, Using numbeo for your "hard facts" is as silly as quoting the Prague Post as factual.

09:15:10 04.09.2014 VLM

Here is the hard data that answers the OP: http://www.czso.cz/eng/redakce.nsf/i/labour_and_earnings_ekon But it is of almost no relevance to your decision to stay here or move somewhere else. If you are not satisfied with your salary/quality of life, look for something else. Moaning about it on here will not solve anything. The borders are open, life is full of choices! If you are genuinely stuck here and can't find a better job, then reprioritise your budget and value what you've got. You could try to rent your own place in London on an average UK salary, see how much you have after paying the expenses there. Go for it! So short term/payday loans are expanding here (according to the Prague Post article). Guess what, they are booming in the UK and US as well.

12:34:57 04.09.2014 Rob_Prague_2004

Quote: VLMSo you´re now intimating that 98,8-99% of the Czech population live in Prague in rented accommodation. You are hillarious. :D :D :D :D Please stop. :D :D :D By the way, Using numbeo for your "hard facts" is as silly as quoting the Prague Post as factual.

As I've said before, why don't you show us your sources that will prove me wrong? :) Also, there have been plenty of studies done on EU real estate that show German's and Czech's tend to rent for life as opposed to the UK where buying is much more common. As for everyone living in Prague, I never said that, you did. Here's some other cities in CZ since you can't seem to figure out how to search for things yourself. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Brno http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Czech+Republic&city=Ostrava Again, if my sources aren't up to an acceptable standards, why don't you share some of yours?

13:12:55 04.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Typical troll post. Prove me wrong when I can´t prove I´m right Just to humour you. :rolleyes: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Income_distribution_statistics

13:18:40 04.09.2014 VLM

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzAs I've said before, why don't you show us your sources that will prove me wrong? :) Also, there have been plenty of studies done on EU real estate that show German's and Czech's tend to rent for life as opposed to the UK where buying is much more common.

What studies are you referring to? Back on the Eurostat page, I see that over 60% of dwellings in CZ are owner occupied with no outstandint mortgage. In the UK it's only just over 25%: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Housing_statistics The same diagram shows that there are fewer people renting in proportion of the population.

13:58:45 04.09.2014 Rob_Prague_2004

Don't most of these Eurostat studies rely on statistics provided by each country, which all have their own definition of poverty, homelessness, and inequality?

14:39:42 04.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: VLMTypical troll post. Prove me wrong when I can´t prove I´m right Just to humour you. :rolleyes: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Income_distribution_statistics

But look at the definition - that's percentage of people making below 60% of the national (that's important) median equivalised disposable income. What is the median income in the CR, 24,000 CZK/month? So this basically says that there aren't too many people with incomes of less than 15,000 CZK/month, which is good, but I fail to see how this proves any broader point about income levels. As an aside, I would agree with any argument that the Czech Republic does a good job of making it feasible to at least live a decent life on this type of salary thanks to the health insurance, education, and public transportation systems.

14:58:41 04.09.2014 brodeur

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzDon't most of these Eurostat studies rely on statistics provided by each country, which all have their own definition of poverty, homelessness, and inequality?

LMFAO. You challenge me to produce stats where you produce none. When I do you decry it as biased even though it is to EU standards . If you bothered to read it you would see it shows that the CZ has one of the lowest % of population near the poverty line in the EU. By the way if you bothered to do a bit of research yourself rather than just reading snippets from the Prague post and trolling you might just learn something useful.. ;)

16:42:05 04.09.2014 VLM

Quote: brodeurBut look at the definition - that's percentage of people making below 60% of the national (that's important) median equivalised disposable income. What is the median income in the CR, 24,000 CZK/month? So this basically says that there aren't too many people with incomes of less than 15,000 CZK/month, which is good, but I fail to see how this proves any broader point about income levels. As an aside, I would agree with any argument that the Czech Republic does a good job of making it feasible to at least live a decent life on this type of salary thanks to the health insurance, education, and public transportation systems.

My argument with the troll is with his sweeping statement that " there's about 1-1.5% of the population earning 70K after tax and up and the rest of the population is basically one paycheck away from being homeless.

16:47:49 04.09.2014 VLM

He (troll) also mentioned that 'most' of the people in Usti are barely scraping by. Quite the contrary - I recently moved here, and have visited every year for the last 12 years, sure like any city there is some poverty but it's mostly the Romani ghettos that are run down. The majority of people have very nice lives, where they are able to afford the basics as well as some 'luxuries' (nice car, yearly vacation, etc...) I live in a nice neighborhood outside of downtown with a mix of block apartments, modern apartments and single family homes.

17:45:27 04.09.2014 Jenny.Saufl

Quote: VLMMy argument with the troll is with his sweeping statement that " there's about 1-1.5% of the population earning 70K after tax and up and the rest of the population is basically one paycheck away from being homeless.

Yes, I agree that's hyperbole if for no other reason than there's a decent enough welfare state to keep most people from completely falling through the cracks. I don't think your point about the percentage at risk of poverty holds much weight, though -- as I said, it's a metric defined only by relationship to median Czech wages. All it tells you is that many salaries are pretty closely clustered together and only 10% of wages are below about 15,000 CZK/month. As Eurostat itself says, "This indicator does not measure wealth or poverty, but low income in comparison to other residents in that country, which does not necessarily imply a low standard of living."

19:50:28 04.09.2014 brodeur

Quote: VLMLMFAO. You challenge me to produce stats where you produce none. When I do you decry it as biased even though it is to EU standards . If you bothered to read it you would see it shows that the CZ has one of the lowest % of population near the poverty line in the EU. By the way if you bothered to do a bit of research yourself rather than just reading snippets from the Prague post and trolling you might just learn something useful.. ;)

I simply asked a question regarding how the information was gathered. Nowhere did I say it was biased. Also, I did read the article, hence the followup question.

22:36:54 04.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: brodeurYes, I agree that's hyperbole if for no other reason than there's a decent enough welfare state to keep most people from completely falling through the cracks. I don't think your point about the percentage at risk of poverty holds much weight, though -- as I said, it's a metric defined only by relationship to median Czech wages. All it tells you is that many salaries are pretty closely clustered together and only 10% of wages are below about 15,000 CZK/month. As Eurostat itself says, "This indicator does not measure wealth or poverty, but low income in comparison to other residents in that country, which does not necessarily imply a low standard of living."

Exactly. All it says is that the majority of the population falls into the same salary bracket. It also doesn't say how each country is defining poverty. They're relying on the information that's supplied by each country. It's kind of like when the Mayor of Newark, New Jersey wanted to look good for an election despite the city's skyrocketing murder rate. Rather than actually cleaning up the mess, they just redefined what constituted a homicide.

22:56:55 04.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: brodeur What is the median income in the CR, 24,000 CZK/month? So this basically says that there aren't too many people with incomes of less than 15,000 CZK/month, which is good, but I fail to see how this proves any broader point about income levels.

I live in a small town near Ostrava and I know that most of the people here make about 10-12k a month!!! They live day by day, no once a year vacations ( I know some people here never even been in Praha!!!) In Prague it may look different but the rest of Czech does not look so pretty...

09:08:38 05.09.2014 Thomas1930

Quote: baltykgdyniaI live in a small town near Ostrava and I know that most of the people here make about 10-12k a month!!! They live day by day, no once a year vacations ( I know some people here never even been in Praha!!!) In Prague it may look different but the rest of Czech does not look so pretty...

It's actually even more complicated than that. The median wage is CZK 21 385 (the mean is CZK 25 159 according to statistics hot off the press today). This gives a net wage of 16796 CZK. The poverty statistics state those who are on less than 60 % of this net amount per household on Equivalised Disposable Income. So a person living on their own is at risk if they have less than 10 078 CZK (NET!), but extra people in the same household are counted at 0.5 per person over 14 and 0.3 under 14. http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Glossary:Equivalised_disposable_income So a family of 4 with 2 kids under 14 would be at risk under 21 162 CZK. Obviously there are more at or below this level outside Prague, but when you take into account Prague rents vs. Ostrava rents then the situation is more balanced (they are about half that of Prague, and many have their own flats with the mortgage paid off anyway). It's a bit like comparing salaries in Hull with London rents and prices.

16:12:31 05.09.2014 Rob_Prague_2004

Quote: Rob_Prague_2004It's actually even more complicated than that. The median wage is CZK 21 385 (the mean is CZK 25 159 according to statistics hot off the press today). This gives a net wage of 16796 CZK. The poverty statistics state those who are on less than 60 % of this net amount per household on Equivalised Disposable Income. So a person living on their own is at risk if they have less than 10 078 CZK (NET!), but extra people in the same household are counted at 0.5 per person over 14 and 0.3 under 14. http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Glossary:Equivalised_disposable_income So a family of 4 with 2 kids under 14 would be at risk under 21 162 CZK. Obviously there are more at or below this level outside Prague, but when you take into account Prague rents vs. Ostrava rents then the situation is more balanced (they are about half that of Prague, and many have their own flats with the mortgage paid off anyway). It's a bit like comparing salaries in Hull with London rents and prices.

Rent prices are indeed cheaper (although not half of Prague as you suggest, more like 35% cheaper on average). However, the cost of everything else is the same as Prague. The average family isn't super comfortable with nice cars and yearly vacations as Jenny suggests. They're happy if they can scrape together enough for a couple of beers at the end of the week.

12:36:47 07.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzThe average family isn't super comfortable with nice cars and yearly vacations as Jenny suggests. They're happy if they can scrape together enough for a couple of beers at the end of the week.

Is this anecdotal, troll? Or do you actually have some statistics to prove this :rolleyes: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

16:14:22 07.09.2014 VLM

Quote: VLMIs this anecdotal, troll? Or do you actually have some statistics to prove this :rolleyes: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I was wondering the same thing, or perhaps he'd like to come to Usti and we can grab lunch (for about 65czk and not the cost of Prague) and he can show me all the poverty here, because like I've said, I've never seen it. I would also like to add, my in-laws own several rental properties and that for a 1+1 about 75sq meter place it's 4500Czk inclusive of all utilities. (they rent their 0+1, 45 sq meter unit in this building for 2800Czk inclusive of utilities) So, even if they're making 12000Czk/month and living alone (and most people don't) after paying 360-500Czk/month for the bus to get to/from work...they would still have about 5000Czk a month (after taxes) to pay for food and entertainment. We shop once a week for groceries and other household necessities and spend about 700Czk minus a couple koruna here and there for fresh bread. So lets say an even 3000Czk for food...so that leaves the average person on the low side of the income scale with about 2000Czk at the end of each month. I don't call that scraping by. If she's a woman, she still has extra for a pedicure(240), a lunch out once a week (a restaurant here does a full course of soup, entree, dessert and coffee for 89). A visit to the movie theater(160), pet license(45) Nice steak meal up the street with beer (300) etc.. I just don't know how you can the average person here is just scraping by, when I live here and I know it's not the case. Provide some real statistics from a reliable source.

18:52:52 07.09.2014 Jenny.Saufl

Quote: Jenny.SauflI was wondering the same thing, or perhaps he'd like to come to Usti and we can grab lunch (for about 65czk and not the cost of Prague) and he can show me all the poverty here, because like I've said, I've never seen it. I would also like to add, my in-laws own several rental properties and that for a 1+1 about 75sq meter place it's 4500Czk inclusive of all utilities. (they rent their 0+1, 45 sq meter unit in this building for 2800Czk inclusive of utilities) So, even if they're making 12000Czk/month and living alone (and most people don't) after paying 360-500Czk/month for the bus to get to/from work...they would still have about 5000Czk a month (after taxes) to pay for food and entertainment. We shop once a week for groceries and other household necessities and spend about 700Czk minus a couple koruna here and there for fresh bread. So lets say an even 3000Czk for food...so that leaves the average person on the low side of the income scale with about 2000Czk at the end of each month. I don't call that scraping by. If she's a woman, she still has extra for a pedicure(240), a lunch out once a week (a restaurant here does a full course of soup, entree, dessert and coffee for 89). A visit to the movie theater(160), pet license(45) Nice steak meal up the street with beer (300) etc.. I just don't know how you can the average person here is just scraping by, when I live here and I know it's not the case. Provide some real statistics from a reliable source.

That's a nice little monthly expense plan, but you're missing a lot of things in it. Mobile phone contracts are quite expensive here. That's about 400kc a month without internet and about 700kc with it. Also if you want internet in your place of residence that's about 450kc a month minimum. I'm assuming you also don't want to walk around naked or looking like a homeless person. Clothes are sold at or above the EU average. 1000kc min for a pair of decent jeans, 600kc for a button up shirt, 1000kc for shoes, etc. Then of course if you wanna cook at home, you'll need pots, pans, spoons, forks, knives, glasses, and the rest of it. 700kc can be done for groceries if your willing to eat just basics (chicken, pork, cabbage, bananas, rohlik). If you wanna eat a wider range of fresh quality vegetables,fruits, and bread you need to up that to 1-1.3k a week at least. Then of course, there is the medical expenses such as dental or eye care that aren't covered by the average insurance plans. If the majority of people could afford things like nice cars and a yearly vacation, wouldn't at least one city in CZ rank on the Mercer report? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey

23:42:19 07.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

Well, Kyle perhaps knows something about statistics and numbers; yet is clueless about what they mean in real life. The argument "my googled link is more powerful than your googled link" has no sense whatsoever.

23:49:24 07.09.2014 jezovec

Mercer and HDI reports compare cities and countries using one set of standards for every location. The eurostat report on the other hand relies on each country to submit their own information. If you were a teacher, would you require your students to take a test in front of you, or would you just trust them?

00:00:14 08.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

which is "ranking based upon internal stability, crime, effectiveness of law enforcement and relationships with other countries." (measured exactly by sophisticated instruments applied to citizens - these attributes are not in any circumstances subjective!) - which indeed reflects how many beers a family can afford after vacationing abroad and paying monthly mortgage in a society where most folks have no mortgage at all, not mentioning the price of mobile phone plans!!? Again, you triumphally mix apples and oranges. Boring.

00:30:14 08.09.2014 jezovec

I agree that the reports are apples and oranges in how they were conducted. You need to have one set standard though for the reports to be remotely close to accurate.

02:26:50 08.09.2014 Kyle.Nunyabiznazz

The troll does not have the gumption to check the links provided on the web page he proffers as proof of his theory. http://www.internationalhradviser.co.uk/storage/downloads/2012%20Quality%20Of%20Living%20Worldwide%20City%20Rankings%20Survey.pdf But it´s all selective meaningless drivel when applied to his assertions. Note to self. Stop feeding the troll

09:04:19 08.09.2014 VLM

Quote: Kyle.NunyabiznazzRent prices are indeed cheaper (although not half of Prague as you suggest, more like 35% cheaper on average). However, the cost of everything else is the same as Prague. The average family isn't super comfortable with nice cars and yearly vacations as Jenny suggests. They're happy if they can scrape together enough for a couple of beers at the end of the week.

According to the numbeo site that you have directed people do on this thread, Ostrava rents are around 50% lower than Prague: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Czech+Republic&country2=Czech+Republic&city1=Prague&city2=Ostrava

10:13:08 08.09.2014 Rob_Prague_2004

You buy jeans and a button down every month??? I sure don't. I buy clothes maybe once per year...and take care of them...but socks. Yeah I suppose I would need to buy socks every once and a while. Satellite and internet are covered in our monthly rental contract...and I have a prepaid phone...which I use about...once a week...Oh and I also forgot to add garbage collection, that's 500Kc a year...so 42 a month. I guess I'm not having steak next week like I planned... and I don't know where you buy your groceries but I generally get a nice wide range of things to eat, mostly fresh vegetables, beef roast, pork roast and then items to make pasta, pastries and so on... I don't have anything better than to argue my point with you. I still challenge you to come to my town, and show me where all this poverty is...I was out and about this morning and specifically looking for it...still haven't found any.

11:40:55 08.09.2014 Jenny.Saufl

To be fair Jenny there is probably higher than average poverty in Usti. However most of them are unemployed/workshy (anecdotal so dont ask for proof :D) and looked after by an overly generous welfare system. Very few are "one paycheck away from being homeless"

12:13:14 08.09.2014 VLM